When I got my degree in Criminal Justice we "learned" about Tannenbaum but we never got the details who and what he was at the time. The 'othering of criminals' line always came across as complete bullshit to me.
Same, I was studying criminal justice for my degree and we didn't go into depth about labeling theory in our Criminology class. I remember when discussing older criminology theories especially Italian and Russian we asked why their research was no longer applicable and we basically got a disclaimer "uh it's been discredited i guess." But we still had modest discussions. The cracks were starting to form during the Floyd Chimp out that the restorative justice model I believed in and was taught was never going to work. Keep in mind this was at a conservative institution, I couldn't imagine how much worse these classes would've been at a state/liberal college. I'm glad we're making progress, but people don't understand how many Tannenbaums and like works that are entrenched in academia, especially in criminology.
I went to public college that had the following professors (class of 2013):
1. Did 10 years for running weed federal case. (denied it)
2. Conviction for double homicide, ex-wife/mother-in-law, over-turned because the detectives didn't wait for a warrant to clear.
3. Hated the FBI for merely existing.
The restorative justice shit wasn't being pushed, they were focused more on Community Policing and ending narcotic prohibition. The murder taught a class on institutional violence which covered lynching and environmental toxins in black communities. It was a shit show.
That's rough, makes me feel grateful for the education and the professors I got. I'm near finishing the "days of rage" book. My zoomer mind can't comprehend that those kinds of professors and "educators" walked among us and were given the keys to academia. I hated school and never took it seriously until recently especially after graduating and getting my degrees. Even though there's a vibe shift in mainstream high academia I'm still hesitant to go after a masters when I'm comfortable where I'm at now
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and if your past shows that you were a piece of shit people will treat you accordingly. The lefts hates this when it is applied to them.
It's refreshing to know that the commies seem to get uglier and more intolerable with successive generations. We should use this. I forgot to read the article, though.
Quite literally the "I have nothing but contempt for your backwards beliefs but if I repeat them back to you maybe you'll do what I want" meme but with an added "and I have a club behind my back", really puts a neat bow on the whole thing. You're absolutely right, these are not new problems we're facing today.
Another banger! I’m ashamed I didn’t read this when it first came out but I’m glad you are reposting these historical classics!! One thing we did get right in response to the madness of Tannenbaum and his ilk is to shut down all immigration from Central and Eastern Europe in the 1920s. Patriotic Americans realized we needed time to absorb the massive amount of immigrants we had allowed into the country in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. This is another lesson for today.
If you get all the way through this long but interesting piece, go play Peter Paul and Mary's version of the IWWW song "Because All Men Are Brothers". I was a poorly educated kid who was amazed at how wonderful the tune for the Wobblies anthem was. (Having PP&M singing it as a hymn definitely helped.) Later discovered that the Wobblies had stolen the music from the traditional hymn "Oh Sacred Head Now Wounded" which was based on a Bach piece. But, music by great performers written by a great musician even though PP&M had some strange ideas. Anybody but me remember them taking Fidel Castro in an american shopping trip? Was the "stick in the eye" shopping trip maybe an outgrowth of them frequently singing the Wobbly song?
FYI: Still drag some Wobbly ideas around in my brain but my dabbling with 60s SDS people convinced me that violence no matter how much fun wasn't the right path if you wanted results instead of gestures. !! i've never before connected the Wobblies with virtue signaling by the "betters". Got to think about that !!
It seems like a common thread in these disastrous eventual socialist revolutionary victories is that they in part stem from a failure of the existing order to adapt to or address problems arising from novel socio-economic conditions. The revolutionaries use legitimate grievances or reasonable demands as a battering ram. Reading a bit of Richard Pipes' book on the Russian Revolution, there are examples of the government being either too slow to implement land reforms (or other reforms, I'm no expert yet) that would have ironically served to preserve order, failures that the communists took advantage of.
Interestingly, from a quick Wikipedia search, after marrying Steffens, Ella Winter moved to "the largest art colony on the Pacific Coast, Carmel-by-the-Sea, California, where their social circle included..." a fair number of interesting big shot intellectuals and artists, including the reactionary poet Robinson Jeffers. Undoubtedly some of that burgeoning cultural energy was co-opted by these bad actors. Maybe if the right had taken some of the wind out of socialist sails things could have turned out differently. It's not enough for a right wing movement to be simply "conservative", it must be energetic and visionary, I think partly why it's been so difficult to get the geriatric lamestream RINOs with the MAGA program, forward, vital, life-affirming MOVEMENT (in every sense of the word) is the only way to victory.
Need literary help. After the below post, bits of a Carl Sandburg poem about an encounter between an Irish copy and an amerindian Wobbly protester. Any body remember the title of the poem?
When I got my degree in Criminal Justice we "learned" about Tannenbaum but we never got the details who and what he was at the time. The 'othering of criminals' line always came across as complete bullshit to me.
Same, I was studying criminal justice for my degree and we didn't go into depth about labeling theory in our Criminology class. I remember when discussing older criminology theories especially Italian and Russian we asked why their research was no longer applicable and we basically got a disclaimer "uh it's been discredited i guess." But we still had modest discussions. The cracks were starting to form during the Floyd Chimp out that the restorative justice model I believed in and was taught was never going to work. Keep in mind this was at a conservative institution, I couldn't imagine how much worse these classes would've been at a state/liberal college. I'm glad we're making progress, but people don't understand how many Tannenbaums and like works that are entrenched in academia, especially in criminology.
I went to public college that had the following professors (class of 2013):
1. Did 10 years for running weed federal case. (denied it)
2. Conviction for double homicide, ex-wife/mother-in-law, over-turned because the detectives didn't wait for a warrant to clear.
3. Hated the FBI for merely existing.
The restorative justice shit wasn't being pushed, they were focused more on Community Policing and ending narcotic prohibition. The murder taught a class on institutional violence which covered lynching and environmental toxins in black communities. It was a shit show.
That's rough, makes me feel grateful for the education and the professors I got. I'm near finishing the "days of rage" book. My zoomer mind can't comprehend that those kinds of professors and "educators" walked among us and were given the keys to academia. I hated school and never took it seriously until recently especially after graduating and getting my degrees. Even though there's a vibe shift in mainstream high academia I'm still hesitant to go after a masters when I'm comfortable where I'm at now
I ended up saying to hell with becoming and LEO and got into IT. It has been much better for my sanity.
“Othering” is a real phenomenon, but as usual communists hide their uglier aims behind kernels of truth.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and if your past shows that you were a piece of shit people will treat you accordingly. The lefts hates this when it is applied to them.
It's refreshing to know that the commies seem to get uglier and more intolerable with successive generations. We should use this. I forgot to read the article, though.
Quite literally the "I have nothing but contempt for your backwards beliefs but if I repeat them back to you maybe you'll do what I want" meme but with an added "and I have a club behind my back", really puts a neat bow on the whole thing. You're absolutely right, these are not new problems we're facing today.
The only good communist is a ______ communist.
Everytime I read these articles I hate the commies a little more
Another banger! I’m ashamed I didn’t read this when it first came out but I’m glad you are reposting these historical classics!! One thing we did get right in response to the madness of Tannenbaum and his ilk is to shut down all immigration from Central and Eastern Europe in the 1920s. Patriotic Americans realized we needed time to absorb the massive amount of immigrants we had allowed into the country in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. This is another lesson for today.
Blast from the past strikes me:
If you get all the way through this long but interesting piece, go play Peter Paul and Mary's version of the IWWW song "Because All Men Are Brothers". I was a poorly educated kid who was amazed at how wonderful the tune for the Wobblies anthem was. (Having PP&M singing it as a hymn definitely helped.) Later discovered that the Wobblies had stolen the music from the traditional hymn "Oh Sacred Head Now Wounded" which was based on a Bach piece. But, music by great performers written by a great musician even though PP&M had some strange ideas. Anybody but me remember them taking Fidel Castro in an american shopping trip? Was the "stick in the eye" shopping trip maybe an outgrowth of them frequently singing the Wobbly song?
FYI: Still drag some Wobbly ideas around in my brain but my dabbling with 60s SDS people convinced me that violence no matter how much fun wasn't the right path if you wanted results instead of gestures. !! i've never before connected the Wobblies with virtue signaling by the "betters". Got to think about that !!
It seems like a common thread in these disastrous eventual socialist revolutionary victories is that they in part stem from a failure of the existing order to adapt to or address problems arising from novel socio-economic conditions. The revolutionaries use legitimate grievances or reasonable demands as a battering ram. Reading a bit of Richard Pipes' book on the Russian Revolution, there are examples of the government being either too slow to implement land reforms (or other reforms, I'm no expert yet) that would have ironically served to preserve order, failures that the communists took advantage of.
Interestingly, from a quick Wikipedia search, after marrying Steffens, Ella Winter moved to "the largest art colony on the Pacific Coast, Carmel-by-the-Sea, California, where their social circle included..." a fair number of interesting big shot intellectuals and artists, including the reactionary poet Robinson Jeffers. Undoubtedly some of that burgeoning cultural energy was co-opted by these bad actors. Maybe if the right had taken some of the wind out of socialist sails things could have turned out differently. It's not enough for a right wing movement to be simply "conservative", it must be energetic and visionary, I think partly why it's been so difficult to get the geriatric lamestream RINOs with the MAGA program, forward, vital, life-affirming MOVEMENT (in every sense of the word) is the only way to victory.
Need literary help. After the below post, bits of a Carl Sandburg poem about an encounter between an Irish copy and an amerindian Wobbly protester. Any body remember the title of the poem?
The Perplexity AI app might help you find it, you have to be very specific with the prompt for it to be useful though.
Thanks, i'll give it a try. Copilot didn't have much enthusiasm for Carl Sandburg!!